What about high school? Do too many people go to high school?
Agree with student loans increasing college cost too much and degrees being credentials. But, I still harbor hope for more education being a good thing if we could reform how we do things. (Which maybe wouldn't even include college).
Agreed that the whole system needs reform, and most of these ideas are just sub-optimal solutions in the short run. Everyone is going to appreciate beauty, but not everyone is going to be an engineer, carpenter, or ship captain. Yet we teach the math for those things to everyone, and the beauty of math to a small group, selected for their ability to grasp the engineering math despite poor teaching.
I agree with a lot of this, but I'm compelled to ask: People typically leave college with no immediate income. They can qualify for chapter 7, but they also have no assets, so the creditors get nothing. Seems like, if student loans were discharged in bankruptcy, it would become a rite of passage, get your diploma, get your chapter 7. Which means there would be no loans for college in a couple years. So we'd be back to college is a thing you can do if your parents have X amount of money. X would be lower than now, but there would also be no other option. Doesn't seem to me like the best way to go about achieving these goals.
I think making colleges eat the cost of default is a potential way to curb that. It would still incentivise schools to seek out rich kids, but rich kids + kids with good job prospects is far far superior to rich kids only and would lessen the risk of, like, eliminating all RNs, who are seldom rich kids, and other non-romantic but very practical degrees.
It would also mean that colleges are disincentived from any kid who experienced misfortune or turned themselves around later or what have you, which is tragic.
Always trade-offs. In terms of making colleges eat the costs, what do you think about my half-baked idea: tuition is stated as a percentage of salary 5 years after graduation, for like 3 years.
Personally, I think it's less than ideal. College, and education, should be about enlightenment, not a job. But the reason they were able to massively hike tuition and spend it on more lazy rivers and administrators is the claim that it will get you a good job, so why not hold them to that argument?
I remember Perdue, I think, proposing such a policy at one time, but I couldn't find anything on a quick Google search.
I think one of the ways that universities are such a boon to human freedom is that they allow you to escape your backwards hometown, abusive family, ghettoized neighborhood, cult, etc.
It is also sad that say, a middle class kid going into accounting has a 99% chance of living well enough to pay off the loans whereas a poor kid has a 70% chance. That's a pretty high risk of failure so now it's 0%.
Ideally without the federal loans college would get cheap enough again that anyone could work their way through. But yes in the meantime a lot of poor kids wouldn’t go to a four year college. I think that’s a good thing. Too many are going now.
I think way too many people go to college, and fewer should go. The problem is, I can think of lots of ways people should decide if it's for them or not, which are not taken into consideration now, but how rich are my parents isn't one of them.
Yes. Too many are going to college now. Cut ALL the female students, and you’d be left with only serious STEM students studying serious, and useful fields.
You seem to recognize that women are afforded a remarkable privilege to pursue frivolous aims. And yet, you want to maintain the delusion that women are just somehow more cognitively capable of success in the 21st century…
This isn’t the case. Men simply don’t have the luxury of being capitulated and condescended to by society all the time. That’s why we pursue trades rather than liberal arts degrees, you aren’t more intelligent, you’re just more entitled.
When boys go to college, they tend to study useful subjects like engineering… this is a message that needs to be directed at girls, for their own good.
At its core I don’t think enough 18 year olds are ready to be fully independent adults and I think sending them into the workforce and expecting them to be good people is hard to understand.
I feel like we need a long training wheels period that probably goes until mid 20s for many neurodivergent people and universities provide this and the work place wouldn’t even move me off shifts where I was being abused by my coworkers.
Also I just don’t think there’s much way to put the toothpaste back in the tube. The bachelor’s degree is the basic generalist certificate the way high school was 50 years ago. Maybe this is all bias from being a teacher but I think it’s fundamentally good for everyone to get a chance to study what interests them. Maybe that should mean more apprenticeships and other kinds of cte but reducing the educational opportunities to anyone seems like a really bad idea.
Industry is recruiting high school students who are learning a trade, signing them up like a gifted athlete. Electricians, plumbers welders etc and paying them very well.
It is hard for young men to stay focused in high school and college. They are constantly in HEAT or IN SEASON and have this on their mind creating a distraction as little junior Johnson keeps jumping up and trying to get out of their Levis.
What about high school? Do too many people go to high school?
Agree with student loans increasing college cost too much and degrees being credentials. But, I still harbor hope for more education being a good thing if we could reform how we do things. (Which maybe wouldn't even include college).
High school takes too long and yes more kids should be allowed to quit
Maybe the future of high school will be AI tutors and group social activities
Agreed that the whole system needs reform, and most of these ideas are just sub-optimal solutions in the short run. Everyone is going to appreciate beauty, but not everyone is going to be an engineer, carpenter, or ship captain. Yet we teach the math for those things to everyone, and the beauty of math to a small group, selected for their ability to grasp the engineering math despite poor teaching.
I agree with a lot of this, but I'm compelled to ask: People typically leave college with no immediate income. They can qualify for chapter 7, but they also have no assets, so the creditors get nothing. Seems like, if student loans were discharged in bankruptcy, it would become a rite of passage, get your diploma, get your chapter 7. Which means there would be no loans for college in a couple years. So we'd be back to college is a thing you can do if your parents have X amount of money. X would be lower than now, but there would also be no other option. Doesn't seem to me like the best way to go about achieving these goals.
I think making colleges eat the cost of default is a potential way to curb that. It would still incentivise schools to seek out rich kids, but rich kids + kids with good job prospects is far far superior to rich kids only and would lessen the risk of, like, eliminating all RNs, who are seldom rich kids, and other non-romantic but very practical degrees.
It would also mean that colleges are disincentived from any kid who experienced misfortune or turned themselves around later or what have you, which is tragic.
Always trade-offs. In terms of making colleges eat the costs, what do you think about my half-baked idea: tuition is stated as a percentage of salary 5 years after graduation, for like 3 years.
Personally, I think it's less than ideal. College, and education, should be about enlightenment, not a job. But the reason they were able to massively hike tuition and spend it on more lazy rivers and administrators is the claim that it will get you a good job, so why not hold them to that argument?
I remember Perdue, I think, proposing such a policy at one time, but I couldn't find anything on a quick Google search.
I think one of the ways that universities are such a boon to human freedom is that they allow you to escape your backwards hometown, abusive family, ghettoized neighborhood, cult, etc.
It is also sad that say, a middle class kid going into accounting has a 99% chance of living well enough to pay off the loans whereas a poor kid has a 70% chance. That's a pretty high risk of failure so now it's 0%.
Ideally without the federal loans college would get cheap enough again that anyone could work their way through. But yes in the meantime a lot of poor kids wouldn’t go to a four year college. I think that’s a good thing. Too many are going now.
I think way too many people go to college, and fewer should go. The problem is, I can think of lots of ways people should decide if it's for them or not, which are not taken into consideration now, but how rich are my parents isn't one of them.
Yes. Too many are going to college now. Cut ALL the female students, and you’d be left with only serious STEM students studying serious, and useful fields.
You seem to recognize that women are afforded a remarkable privilege to pursue frivolous aims. And yet, you want to maintain the delusion that women are just somehow more cognitively capable of success in the 21st century…
This isn’t the case. Men simply don’t have the luxury of being capitulated and condescended to by society all the time. That’s why we pursue trades rather than liberal arts degrees, you aren’t more intelligent, you’re just more entitled.
When boys go to college, they tend to study useful subjects like engineering… this is a message that needs to be directed at girls, for their own good.
At its core I don’t think enough 18 year olds are ready to be fully independent adults and I think sending them into the workforce and expecting them to be good people is hard to understand.
I feel like we need a long training wheels period that probably goes until mid 20s for many neurodivergent people and universities provide this and the work place wouldn’t even move me off shifts where I was being abused by my coworkers.
Also I just don’t think there’s much way to put the toothpaste back in the tube. The bachelor’s degree is the basic generalist certificate the way high school was 50 years ago. Maybe this is all bias from being a teacher but I think it’s fundamentally good for everyone to get a chance to study what interests them. Maybe that should mean more apprenticeships and other kinds of cte but reducing the educational opportunities to anyone seems like a really bad idea.
Industry is recruiting high school students who are learning a trade, signing them up like a gifted athlete. Electricians, plumbers welders etc and paying them very well.
It is hard for young men to stay focused in high school and college. They are constantly in HEAT or IN SEASON and have this on their mind creating a distraction as little junior Johnson keeps jumping up and trying to get out of their Levis.