I'm so out of touch I didn't know who Sara and Jonah were . . . I did recognize him when I saw a photo and said, "ahh, now I know" but I'm just not "celebrity aware." That said, you're spot on--sure, he can lay down whatever boundaries he wants, but this is indeed about power and Sarah should run, run away, very quickly from this abusive piece of shit.
I mean, I think it shows incredible insecurity. I would quickly advise any female friend in such a situation to leave it, and of course the point is that if she didn't, I might not get to give advice again as she decides to not have male friends, thus limiting her options if it turns into something worse.
Everyone has some set of needs out of any given relationship, and relationships are successful when they're a negotiation. Is it abusive, per se, to have non-negotiable needs that are, in practice, misogynistic? I don't think so, but it does make you kind of shitty.
There is communicating boundaries and then there is making a romantic partner choose between their career and their authentic self on one hand and a relationship with you on the other. Folks with this mindset love the idea of being with a certain type of partner but not who the partner actually is. Their insecurities (at the very least) come through and they demand change from their partner without meeting them in the middle. It’s either their way or nothing at all.
Even if the intent is not abusive, it's hard not to at least take advantage of them. In the most equal of relationships it's difficult to guess what someone needs and wants. In an unequal relationship where she is playing a role and doing work you de facto don't have to understand or worry about there is no way someone can take care of your needs even if they want to. And the power differential disincentivizes wanting to!
I think it's pretty dumb to date someone who's job/hobby/stream of revenue comes from public exposure in a bikini and then expect them to change their life to be in a relationship with you once you're a few months into the relationship. I also think some number of dudes can tell when a particular guy orbiting a woman he's in a relationship is looking to fuck and not wanting that to happen. I think cutting off all male relationships is a bit much, relative to what those interactions look like but seeing boundaries on this does not constitute abuse. Abuse is more related to using any means necessary to keep someone from leaving and actually trying to control them. Jonah made it very clear in those text messages that she's allowed to leave. I think it's dumb on his part that he didn't know this was going to be a problem for him when he entered the relationship, but this is not an example of abuse. Women don't have rights to men's time, presence, resources, etc. Without expectations. It's not abuse for her to leave a relationship, particularly when the information you provided shows that she had resources and a social network that aren't going to drive her into poverty.
Cathy, I look forward to the day when you take accountability for yourself and your experiences and just come totally clean with the fact that you hate men because they keep leaving you and that you think society needs to stop this from happening because men shouldn't be allowed to be free from women. Until that day, cheerio!
I think “Cathy hates men” is a weird takeaway from my writing and I don’t know that I’d describe my dating history as men continually leaving me. But okay? And cheerio to you as well Matt.
It's just bizarre to me given some of the things I've gone through that you're appalled and calling this abusive. I wish abusive people were this polite.
You have an inherent anti male bias in your writing that's become apparent after reading so many of your articles and only feign compassion for men because you're socially aware that saying the quiet part out loud would undermine your ability to reach more people. The idea that you or some other women have trauma and therefore can't do healthy things for yourselves and men can't ask for anything because there's a power indifference is absurd. Very few men are just raging violent narcissists who are trying to chain women down. If you're going to say that women can't be allowed to make decisions for themselves because power isn't equal (newsflash, rarely are 2 individuals on an equal playing field) then who's the enlightened perfect person who's going to be making these decisions for them and taking responsibility for them? It's absurd to me how much we allow grown women to just act like stupid infants who can't be responsible enough to just leave a relationship without throwing an abuse claim at him. The only reason behind calling this emotional abuse is because you don't want to be dumped by Jonah Hill. It's bullshit and you're a level of dumb that's historic if you're going to take getting dumped as abuse. Grow the fuck up and maybe also acknowledge that maybe you're the fucking loser if the guy dumping you has more money, status, fame, etc. Than you. Just take the loss with grace instead of acting like a toxic mega bitch on the way out.
It’s weird to say “newsflash” before restating something I originally wrote in the very post upon which you’re commenting. Which gives me even more reason to think whatever you’re responding to, it’s not what I actually wrote.
I'm so out of touch I didn't know who Sara and Jonah were . . . I did recognize him when I saw a photo and said, "ahh, now I know" but I'm just not "celebrity aware." That said, you're spot on--sure, he can lay down whatever boundaries he wants, but this is indeed about power and Sarah should run, run away, very quickly from this abusive piece of shit.
I just think that the fact that abuse is ultimately about power is super underrated. Thanks for weighing in. <3
OMG Yes
I mean, I think it shows incredible insecurity. I would quickly advise any female friend in such a situation to leave it, and of course the point is that if she didn't, I might not get to give advice again as she decides to not have male friends, thus limiting her options if it turns into something worse.
Everyone has some set of needs out of any given relationship, and relationships are successful when they're a negotiation. Is it abusive, per se, to have non-negotiable needs that are, in practice, misogynistic? I don't think so, but it does make you kind of shitty.
So happy I don't know either...
Also from the Washington post today
https://wapo.st/3roEMSY
I just ran across this! Ty!
Do you follow @gendersauce on ig?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CuhTYaTunuH/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
No but I will. Ty!
There is communicating boundaries and then there is making a romantic partner choose between their career and their authentic self on one hand and a relationship with you on the other. Folks with this mindset love the idea of being with a certain type of partner but not who the partner actually is. Their insecurities (at the very least) come through and they demand change from their partner without meeting them in the middle. It’s either their way or nothing at all.
It's very sad
Even if the intent is not abusive, it's hard not to at least take advantage of them. In the most equal of relationships it's difficult to guess what someone needs and wants. In an unequal relationship where she is playing a role and doing work you de facto don't have to understand or worry about there is no way someone can take care of your needs even if they want to. And the power differential disincentivizes wanting to!
I think it's pretty dumb to date someone who's job/hobby/stream of revenue comes from public exposure in a bikini and then expect them to change their life to be in a relationship with you once you're a few months into the relationship. I also think some number of dudes can tell when a particular guy orbiting a woman he's in a relationship is looking to fuck and not wanting that to happen. I think cutting off all male relationships is a bit much, relative to what those interactions look like but seeing boundaries on this does not constitute abuse. Abuse is more related to using any means necessary to keep someone from leaving and actually trying to control them. Jonah made it very clear in those text messages that she's allowed to leave. I think it's dumb on his part that he didn't know this was going to be a problem for him when he entered the relationship, but this is not an example of abuse. Women don't have rights to men's time, presence, resources, etc. Without expectations. It's not abuse for her to leave a relationship, particularly when the information you provided shows that she had resources and a social network that aren't going to drive her into poverty.
Cathy, I look forward to the day when you take accountability for yourself and your experiences and just come totally clean with the fact that you hate men because they keep leaving you and that you think society needs to stop this from happening because men shouldn't be allowed to be free from women. Until that day, cheerio!
I think “Cathy hates men” is a weird takeaway from my writing and I don’t know that I’d describe my dating history as men continually leaving me. But okay? And cheerio to you as well Matt.
It's just bizarre to me given some of the things I've gone through that you're appalled and calling this abusive. I wish abusive people were this polite.
You have an inherent anti male bias in your writing that's become apparent after reading so many of your articles and only feign compassion for men because you're socially aware that saying the quiet part out loud would undermine your ability to reach more people. The idea that you or some other women have trauma and therefore can't do healthy things for yourselves and men can't ask for anything because there's a power indifference is absurd. Very few men are just raging violent narcissists who are trying to chain women down. If you're going to say that women can't be allowed to make decisions for themselves because power isn't equal (newsflash, rarely are 2 individuals on an equal playing field) then who's the enlightened perfect person who's going to be making these decisions for them and taking responsibility for them? It's absurd to me how much we allow grown women to just act like stupid infants who can't be responsible enough to just leave a relationship without throwing an abuse claim at him. The only reason behind calling this emotional abuse is because you don't want to be dumped by Jonah Hill. It's bullshit and you're a level of dumb that's historic if you're going to take getting dumped as abuse. Grow the fuck up and maybe also acknowledge that maybe you're the fucking loser if the guy dumping you has more money, status, fame, etc. Than you. Just take the loss with grace instead of acting like a toxic mega bitch on the way out.
It’s weird to say “newsflash” before restating something I originally wrote in the very post upon which you’re commenting. Which gives me even more reason to think whatever you’re responding to, it’s not what I actually wrote.
It's hilarious how much you miss the point
Neat opinion. Do you also think it’s pretty dumb for women to date male surfers who make their money wearing a bathing suit in public?
I need to update my original post